Bros

It was so good to see you guys on Saturday night. I believe that is just a foreshadowing of what it is going to be like when we all hit Heaven. God bless keith

Reasoning daily in the Scriptures (cont'd...)

Men:
Here's the email response from my doctor friend Robin in Colorado. You may want to re-read my original post again and you will note that she does not offer any rebuttal to my questions regarding the reconciliation of evolutionary thinking and the laws of thermodynamics. Instead, she throws a whole lot of junk about the Bible Jesus and the disciples that's completely unsubstantiated. My reply follows.

How would you respond?

But before you read on, Word up. Get wisdom and understanding. Buy the Truth. Here's what King Solomon said:

Incline your ear and hear the words of the wise,And apply your heart to my knowledge;
For it is a pleasant thing if you keep them within you; let them all be fixed upon your lips, so that your trust may be in the Lord; I have instructed you today, even you. Have I not written to you excellent things of counsels and knowledge, that I may make you know the certainty of the words of truth, that you may answer words of truth to those who send to you?--Proverbs 22:17-21

Love u guys,
tarik

Hi Tarik-
Most doctors do believe in evolution. You stated that one of us is wrong. Why is that? Could it be that neither of us is right or wrong? Does it really matter? I'm entitled to my views as you are yours. We have both formed our view points based on our unique life experiences.

I prefer not to judge. Evolution and the belief in G-d are not exclusionary. I know the church will tell you so as a scare tactic, but you can believe in BOTH G-d AND evolution and still be a spiritual and loving soul.

The only thing I care about is leaving this earth a better place. I believe in love. I don't believe in judging people. Differences in opinion are what make this earth an interesting and better place to live. I believe that if two people are inlove, it doesn't matter what sex they are, or what the color of their skin is.

I would rather base my opinion on what they do in their lifetime for others and to benefit humanity as a whole than who they choose to love and who they chose to worship if they choose to worship at all. I would rather not spend my time passing judgement on people. I would rather accept everyone for who they are- differences are beautiful and they make the world a unique place. I believe a woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body, just as you have the right to do what you want with your own body.

You speak of the bible, but there are many sources people turn to, the koran, the old testament, the new testament, scientific journals etc, etc. The interesting thing about the bible is that it was written hundreds and hundreds of years after Jesus died by people just like you and me. The men who wrote the bible had never met Jesus nor had they had even met anyone even remotely related to Jesus. The third most popular religion in the world is atheism- or not even believing in G-d.

None of us know who is right or wrong, and maybe all of us are wrong in what our "beliefs" are. But does that really matter anyways? To me, it matters what we do each and every day to make the world a better place to live in. And for me that is accepting everyone and trying to help those less fortunate than me. Perhaps your views are different, and I accept them b/c I don't know any better than you, and you don't know any better than me. But I am not going to force my perpective on you, as I would hope you would not force your perspective on me. This is not Nazi germany where differences are persecuted.

Religion is supposed to be INCLUSIVE rather than EXCLUSIVE, and when it becomes about being who is right and who is wrong than it defeats the entire purpose of religion, because judgement is the basis of righteouseness and hatred, and that is what starts hatred and killings. Every war we have had has been based on religion and supposed "differences".

Sorry for being so long winded, but no one really knows, and our time is much better spent on helping people than trying to figure out who is "right" or who is "wrong", b/c there is a good possiblity we are all wrong. Actions are much more important than words anyways.
Much love-
Robin

“You stated that one of us is wrong. Why is that? Could it be that neither of us is right or wrong? Does it really matter?”

Robin:
If you believe in relativism then both of us can be right. However, I believe in absolute truth. You asked whether it really matters; I say yes it does, but apparently it doesn’t really matter to you.

You did not offer any rebuttal to my points about the laws of thermodynamics which contradict evolution. I was more interested in learning why you believe what you believe.

I’d be happy to pick up our discussion anytime you like. Jesus loves you and so do I.

tarik

2nd ANNUAL LISTEN UP! MENS RETREAT

Gentlemen and Gentlemen,

It is the final stretch before we leave for the second annual Listen Up Men's Camping Trip. The dates are Friday Oct. 3- Sunday Oct.5. We are going to be going to Wheeler Gorge in the Ojai valley. To check it out go to http://www.rockymountainrec.com/camp/padres-wheeler-gorge.htm. I hope to see you all there.

Arrival and departure details will be provided next Monday.

THIS COULD BE YOU SLAMMING TAYLOR IF YOU COME!!!



N.

Men's Group Hockey Night - LA Kings vs Phoenix Coyotes

MEN:
We will not be meeting this Monday Night, September 22nd...instead, we will be attending the LA Kings vs Phoenix Coyotes hockey game at The Staples Center (in Jesus name, of course) to find out how men fight on skates while chasing a puck traveling in excess of 100mph at times.

We have 6 extra tickets. First ones to contact Taylor (805-455-4122) get to go. We will leave SB at 4pm and drive down to the Staples Center. The game starts at 7:30. Looking forward to hanging with you guys. Much love.
tarik

Check Yourself

Gentlemen,
I know that Listen Up groups have spread far and wide, and that many of you might not know me. I'm just a small part of what Jesus has done with the Coastlands of Southern California, but I wanted to share this article with you all.

1 John 2:6...you guys know what that is right? Isn't it our group verse? "Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Christ did.-(NLT)" Below is an article from an Atheist writer in the UK calling this truth out, and the sad fact that many of our "brothers and sisters", including ourselves, are not truly living out the faith we claim to have in Jesus.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article4761159.ece

Honestly, reading this pissed me off. It made me angry and I wanted to write back telling this guy he didn't have any idea what Christianity is about. But after testing some of what he said in prayer, the Holy Spirit showed me that some of what he said rings true in my heart. Conviction and growth can come from some of the most unlikely places, but that's our God. You never know what He's going to do. So instead of get pissed and "sin in my anger", I'm posting this because I love you all, whether I know you or not. If you follow Jesus, you're my brother. Let's check our hearts men and make sure we aren't giving anyone the opportunity to say our faith isn't expressed in the lives we lead. There's a battle going on. Are we living like it?

- Kyle

Moral Relativism....

This is an AWESOME (yet extremely boring on a visual level) video on Moral Relativism by an apologist named Greg Koukl. It's an hour-long video, but it's SO worth watching in this "morally-relative" age. Watch it! I know you'll be blessed by it. Forget about the new episode of 90210 and feed your brain instead! If you haven't heard the term before I promise you that you will soon, like probably tomorrow. Anyway, without further ado...let's see if this works...

Photo Shoot with Dominic Balli

Hey Guys,
The Santa Barbara Independent is doing a photo shoot for Dom at:
Soho 1221 State St
TODAY between 4:45 and 5:30 today and has invited anyone who can make it to come and get "discovered" as America's next Top Model. Nah, just kidding! But show up if u can cause the more people the better.

See you tonight!

http://www.independent.com/news/2008/aug/21/dominic-balli/

Peace.
tarik

MENS RETREAT OCTOBER 3rd-5th

Possible Men's Retreat Location scheduled for weekend of October 3-5th. Give me a shout out what you think.

http://www.rockymountainrec.com/camp/padres-wheeler-gorge.htm
or
http://www.rockymountainrec.com/camp/padres-holiday.htm

Neil

Follow His Lead

Guys, scroll down and read Tarik's post before you read this. That being said, I had a nice political talk with someone I work with. To make a long story short, the whole conversation came down to two things we talk about AALLLL the time at mens group... Perception and Perspective. She said that she doesn't view the world as I do. She's not living in expectation of the "rapture". She thinks Christians are just like another group of people and she is best served by letting everyone do their thing and just being nothing. She says she's a Christian, wears a cross, and a peace sign around her neck. She is voting for Obama because she thinks McCain will go to war and Obama won't. (Even though only one candidate really knows the horror of war and said he hates it... But she doesn't believe him. ((Willingly ignorant)). Her perspective is that war CAN be avoided and PEACE is possible. She does not think we should protect Israel and does think that I have a skewed view of Islam when I say its NOT a peaceful religion................ Well............
The reason I write all this is because I really look forward to our next conversation. I have been faced with the fact that heres an acquaintance who is wrong in her world view. Maybe she was put into my life to show her that there is only One way. I will only be able to tell her. That I believe is my duty. The Good Lord will do the rest. My heart broke when I heard her say some of the things she told me. She like many, think Christians are crazy.. Maybe thats because we have avoided the one on one, mono y mono conversations with those whom we clearly see have lost their way. TG

Reasoning daily in the Scriptures...

Men,

It's been too long since I've made a post but this one will make up for it (at least in length!) Before you read this know that you will also be faced with the same situation soon...there is no way out of it other than to communicate your belief in a way that will encourage others to reconsider their position. Scatter the seed and let the Lord do the watering and provide the growth. Jesus said, "The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest. Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves."--Luke 10:2

So here's the background: I've recently reconnected with many old high school friends on Facebook. One of them in particular is a doctor in Colorado who's name is Robin. She made a comment regarding Sarah Palin...here it is:

"Robin just learned that sarah palin believes in teaching creationism in public schools- i feel like we are going backwards in time instead of forwards..."

My response (Tarik): So where do you think we came from? Just curious...

Her reply (Robin): Hi Tarik-
I'm a doctor, and like all doctors and scientists, we believe in studies and facts. Therefore, I believe firmly and without a doubt in evolution, based on the 100's of years of scientific research, based on 100's of books I have read, as well as the dissection of human bodies and animals bodies. (both dead of course- I don't value certain lives over others) I'm sure you knew the answer to this before you asked, as most people in the world believe in evolution, so just curious why did you ask?

My reply (Tarik):
Hi Robin!

Thanks for your email. To answer your question, I was asking because I was genuinely curious to know exactly what you believe. I believe there are many things we could agree upon and likewise many things we would disagree. With that said, I assume we are both seeking truth.

I’m sure that you would agree with me there are many different world views (i.e. Biblical, evolutionary, etc…) to subscribe to in the world today. I did not know you are a doctor but I believe it would be an inaccurate statement to say, “…all doctors and scientists…and most people in the world believe in evolution.” Certainly, there are many doctors and scientists who believe that we are created by God. I’m not in the medical community but I know of many who share this belief—I’m sure you also know of some as well.

But even if the entire medical and scientific community did believe in evolution, it still doesn’t make it true or “fact” as many textbooks and journals state. At one point in history, the general consensus of many scientists believed the Earth was flat—and they were wrong. Scientific theory originates from or is supported by observations in the natural world, or by experimental evidence. It is a systematic and formalized expression of all previous observations, and is predictive, logical, and testable. To that end, evolution has never been “observed”, “tested” and is certainly not “fact.”

You stated, “I believe firmly and without a doubt in evolution…” Really?! Without a doubt?! As a doctor, you must have studied the laws of thermodynamics. Law #1: Matter cannot be created or destroyed. How does this fit with an evolutionary world view? Law #2: Law of entropy (i.e. order to disorder or chaos) Many scientists believe the universe is coming undone or “winding down.” The theory of evolution requires just as much faith (in my opinion, even more) than to believe that creation speaks of a Creator. These 2 points alone warrant “doubt” into the minds of an evolutionary thinker.

Unfortunately, one of us is wrong. You mentioned that you’ve read “100’s of books and rely upon 100’s of years of scientific research.” I’ve also read many books but rely on one in particular, namely the Bible which dates back approximately 6,000 years ago. I have discovered numerous historical and scientific claims the Bible makes which are supported by archeological finds, actual places that are still in existence today, even governmental records from the neighboring kingdoms that surrounded Jerusalem throughout history that support Biblical accounts.

I don’t want to take up anymore of your time as I know how busy life can be. But I am interested in understanding the basis for your conclusions. I believe that our destiny is ultimately shaped by two things: 1. How we view life - (i.e. Where did we come from? Where are we going when we die? What’s my purpose in life?); and, 2. How we respond to it – (i.e. Where do you turn to in times of trouble? Why do good things happen to bad people? Why is there suffering in the world?) I don’t know the answers to life’s problems but I sure do know the One who does. And that’s who & what I rely upon.

Much love,
tarik